Thought I would copy this comment I received “Southbound” for two reasons
a. To show that the “collective” as they call themselves or malcontents as I call them never showed up at Rehua and have never expressed their concerns – except through orchastrated leaks. Pleased that “Southbound” has picked these points up as I suspect others have.
b. Awarua is having a hui on the 29th – but it is by invite only. If you are on their voting list and therefore should be entiled attend don’t hold your breath for an invitation. Marea Pera, the Tront rep, is a leading malcontent and behind the scenes of disruption, in my view is Tipene O’Regan the Awarua Upoku. Join the dots
c. You can always tel 03 212 6029 for an invite – I will.
“As it turned out there was no cameras at Rehua. Nothing ever beats being there in person anyway but I can understand where SHG is coming from.[ SHG lives in Aus]
The story so far is that a bunch of Ngai Tahu got together in secret because they say they have concerns. They decide to take these concerns to the people via the pakeha media. I can not agree that they have my interests at heart.
Why did they not just call meetings. Or write to the CEO or other runanga or indeed record videos for youtube or whatever to get the message to the rest of the tribe.
Instead they go to the pakeha media who love to trash Maori and drag the name of Ngai Tahu through the mud. If they had tried all those avenues then MAYBE… but maybe the real question is whether they are just making trouble or whether there is anything of genuine concern.
The same people plus a few more turned up unannounced in Kaikoura and put their case there and the people present did not buy it. I read people complaining it was because more people that support Mark S turned up… HELLOOOOO!!!!! Is this not the point? This is how you work out who the people believe or support.
Still at least these concerned Ngai Tahu did turn up and put their case to the people on a marae.
But now that more meetings are being called they don't come to them. These people may have valid concerns but unless they come to the meetings and put their views to the rest of Ngai Tahu in person then it becomes more likely that these concerns are without substance and are about personalities and politics.
They had the chance at Rehua to speak to over 200 Ngai Tahu and heaps of our elders. But they stayed away.”
Now I see on the Ngai Tahu website that Awarua intend to exclude the majority of Ngai Tahu from going to the marae to hear what the concerns are and what the answers in response are. Only members of Awarua and invitees can attend.
I can accept excluding non-Ngai Tahu and the press, but if they are serious about there being concerns then all Ngai Tahu should be able to attend and hear them instead of getting all this second hand stuff.
There was a lot of people from the south that were at Rehua but many more have not had the chance to hear what the differing views are.
Why more secret meetings? Surely all Ngai Tahu are entitled to go to any of these meetings?
Kia ora koutou katoa, I agree with Awarua having a ‘only invite’ kaupapa, I was at the kaikoura meeting as I am a whanau member and to see everyone was beautiful but THEY DO NOT HOLD AHI KAA! In your comments Richard I see you said that “Only people that support Mark showed up” need I remind you that the extra people that showed up did not hold Ahi Kaa and if it was left to the people that do the dishes, work for no payment, man the paepae, dig the gardens etc etc the result would have been different, but instead the “Invaders” arrived. I am not only talking about the so called ‘Evil Side’ I am also talking about whanau from Ngati Kuri that have either never showed up or have only been to a runanga meeting once in the last few years, is this really how any whanau member wants to stay in, is he okay with knowing that he has to bring in people to stay in????
I hope the hui in Awarua goes well and my cousin holds himself with Mana and not blowing kisses to his whanau that do not agree with him, like he did in Kaikoura. We are not concerned about his status as Kaiwhakahaere or the fact that on the table he represents the tribe, we are concerned about his status as Kaikoura rep, runanga member, Ngati Kuri and more importantly our whanau member.
Our Beaton-Morrell/Solomon name has been dragged through the mud enough through childish behaviour.
Kia ora koutou katoa, I disagree with Awarua having an ‘only invite’ kaupapa,though I’m not surprised as they tend to like secret meetings. If I was Mark I wouldn’t show up because how can you hear from the people if the people aren’t invited. He would be better off booking a hall somewhere and inviting whanau to see him there, because let’s face it if you tell people they can’t come, they instantly want to go. I’m sure he wouldn’t be talking to himself and he could always invite those sitting at the Marae, so they can answer to their people.
I was also at the Kaikoura meeting and are a whanau member as well, if by whanau you mean the Beaton-Morrell/Solomon whanau. And walking in to glares and muttering was not very hospitable.
Also if you are going to mention Mark blowing a kiss to those whanau members who did not agree with him. You should also mention them giving him the six gun salute when he entered the wharenui in the midst of the tight six (before all the whanau who held ahi kaa arrived).
It was silly to think that people would not come to the first meeting held after the brilliant media blasting our Runanga received in the papers. The Chair definitely hadn’t thought of the consequences of his actions. Why he thought that our Runanga wouldn’t have an opinion when our Chair goes into the papers blasting our Runanga Rep without first consulting our Runanga over what it was about, was very silly indeed. And learning that he had invited a third of the island (those hapu that did not support Mark) to our meeting without first telling us did not leave a good impression either.
I would also like to know what your concept of ahi kaa is. Because all those in attendance knew exactly what was motivating the hostility within that room and why the lines had been drawn. Our chair allowed himself to be used and paid the price. All whanau present had at least one member of their whanau who regularly attended meetings and who kept them updated with the progress of the Runanga, and why you would think that they would not voice their opinion when our member was challenged in the papers is beyond me.
Alongside this our whanau may not always turn up to Runanga meetings however they are always found at tangi (whether at the Marae or in people’s whare). They are also there when they are asked to help, and for every major hui, which you would realise if you thought seriously about what whanau represented on the day. Most are also there for every major vote that takes place which has in the past given the chair his seat.
Our Beaton Morrell/Solomon name has been dragged through the mud and unfortunately it was done by senior members of the whanau who had only selected information to go on. I think they were being used and this unscupulous behaviour is deplorable.
The chair new full well when he was provoking Mark that he was going to put anything negative he might say in the papers. (As this was agreed to in the meeting he attended down south.) Therefore to cry about comments which by rights should have stayed amongst our Executive now seems petty.
What you do need to realise John, is that those in attendance may have gone to the meeting to support Mark, but they were not there to go against the Chair. Most were looking for any reason to excuse his behaviour and unfortunately his “team” (if Mark and Tahu can have one why not Tom) read the crowd wrong and the hostility and agression of his supporters cost him the vote.
Our whanau were very lucky that the whanau of Mangamaunu treated us with the respect they did, despite the provocation, because it was their whanau that held the mana of Kuri on that day and we should be ashamed of our behaviour, not make up stories now that it is over. As you know our meeting was taped and hopefully we won’t be seeing selected shots on u-tube.
I also hope that the hui in Awarua goes well and that those whanau who belong there are invited to the meeting. If not this will totally oppose the sentiment of their leaders in Kaikoura where they wished to support the runanga, ensure that we were well informed and that those who held ahi kaa were given the right to have their say.
Hopefully still on topic.
You are right Hemi we are harder on our own than others but if we don’t begin the succession planning of trying to get Ngai Tahu whanui into our own tribal organisation – when are we going to do it?
It is not an easy thing but what is?
I have seen how some of our people are treated in OTRONT by our, and other, people and it made my blood boil!
At the moment I would tell any of my whanau (and I have) to keep well clear of that office.
But my vision is that ALL of the roles eventually are filled by Ngai Tahu.
Kia ora Marty,
I share your dream but don’t just blame the Office. I think we need to start at our runanga and we need some more folks who lead by example and who are not focussed on the money.
When Ngai Tahu had nothing we had more folks rolling up their sleeves and sharing and looking after each other. We went to hui in buses not planes and we talked to each other in person. And, if there were issues we did not take them to another marae or to the media we dealt with them at home. There was a sense of why we were doing things.
During my time, and I don’t reckon it will be different now, heaps of our own did not respect the job itself or the tribe. They felt entitled to the pay packet and took time off for this and that and have no concept of what a burden was on our old people to get the claim settled.
Too many of our own people were given jobs because of who they were rather than if they were going to contribute. We have educated them by sending them to university and then they feel superior to our kaumatua and the folks at home still doing it for nothing.
Often these people did not come in for criticism because they were invisible.
So I am more interested in having the right people. Ideally, Ngai Tahu but more importantly people who come to serve the tribe and to make a contribution not those who think the tribe owes them something.
So the meeting at Awarua has been held. Sad to say I did not make it but there because of ill health but has been reports by phone.
Sounded like the home team had a plan – a few leading questions for Mark and a surprise, the ex Chair of NTHC.
Then there was some he said, no that is wrong you said, not true and so on.
Was there a point to it all? It seems there was two kinds of angry people at the hui – the fisherman who had been told Mark was the devil incarnate and was going to cut off their access to Ngai Tahu fish and the angry people. The ones who are always angry.
So given that Mark has always supported looking at ways to let NT fishers have access to the fish then what they were really angry at was the games being played.
Apparently Tipene was hurt that people think he was behind and somehow instigating the misinformation campaign. He is apparently just hanging out on the fence.
Oh well – here is hoping I hear more or someone else will tell us more.
I think some fishers may have got a little less angry. There has been an agreement to finally tell Mark and Te Runanga what the fisherman have agreed to so that they can go fishing.
Shame on the people who used them as pawns. I hope the new regime in NTHC keeps out of tribal politics because it is not fair on our communities.
Word is the Fowler whanau took took the two best lines.
Anthony wanted to know whether Mark and TRoNT were the govenors of NTHC or not (when told NTHC have not bothered to show TRoNT the Murihiku fishers plan despite being asked for it) and what has he (Mark) done about it?
I might be wrong but I think that with Wally gone TRoNT might have a show of being treated with kind of respect Anthony referred to.
Best of the day was the whanau member who noted that it seemed to her that two men had put their egos before the interests of the people.
Tena Koutou
Correct me if I am wrong, Awarua called a meeting with the Kaiwhakahaere as there were concerns that Awarua had and they wanted them addressed. It wasn’t a Ngai Tahu hui, or a Runanga hui, it was specifically called by Awarua in regards to their concerns. Therefore they have every right to invite, inform and choose whom they want present at their hui.
In terms of Janes comments about the six gun salute, when Mark walked into the room, I am very surprised and I wasn’t aware of such things happening until of course Mark Solomon blew his cousin a kiss and stated “I’m just sharing the love cousin” then in response he was given a pointed finger.
From my view of the Kaikoura runanga meeting I agree with John there were members of the Ngati Kuri whanau that have not shown their face for a long time.
Without singling out any one group I felt that order was not in the house of Marukaitatea. Our manuhiri were screamed at and ridiculed, one member Gabrielle was accused of bringing the media to our marae which I add it was pointed out that that was incorrect, Lisa Kahu was told to sit the f*** down when trying to have her say, Tini Solomon when she was talking about her father was told sit down he has been gone for years. When Sharon Hillier put the vote of no confidence in against Thomas Kahu her reasons were not backed up with facts they were squashed by the appropriate members of the runanga (treasurer and General Manager). I will add that this is the stuff that was publically spoken.
I am sure that if you go through the previous runanga minutes that there will be quite a few of the names of whanau from Kaikoura missing.
Also to Jane in no way did Thomas Kahu say anything demeaning about the TRONT rep in the media, I suggest you get the paper again and reread it and then you will know.
But as Jane mentioned the meeting was indeed taped and the truth will be revealed to our runanga.
What saddens me is our future generations were present at that meeting our tamariki and what do we think they were thinking.
Just to add to comments on ahi kaa the pae of takahanga is looking very bare groups are coming to our marae and you will be lucky if there is a kaikaranga let alone a kaiwhaikorero. So Jane rally up those whanau whom you talk about showing their support and keep the pae warm, because that is an indication of a marae in turmoil.
Kia ora all.
The meeting in Awarua appears to have gone well and there doesn’t seem to have been much blood shed, despite curve balls being thrown.
Jane I am glad to hear the pae of Ngati Kuri is being restored as a Ngati Kuri member this is of the utmost importance for takahanga.
I do agree with the majority of your answers to my statements.
The meeting was a tough meeting and given the circumstances it was difficult to manage.
In terms of the vote of no confidence in the chair, I had received notice from an extremely reliable source that this was going to happen and also whom was going to put the vote on the table. Indicating to me that it was definitely premeditated and people come to takahanga to ensure that it would go ahead.
Also the so called team Tahu invaders were not invaders at all the were asked to attend to tautoko (not vote) the kaupapa.
Apparently they arrived the night before and stayed at takahanga and they also brought with them some kai for the hau kainga. Even after been casted out by the home crowd (my view of the situation) they went into the kitchen and cooked a lovely meal which I will add some of the very same people that cast them out of the wharenui, stayed and feasted on their mana.
I am not surprised at all that the Awarua meeting went well given the true mana and tikanga what the whanau from there showed us of Ngati Kuri at takahanga they are a good people. Not saying that Ngati Kuri aren’t I feel we are great at whanaungatanga and manaakitanga. At times we get lost and I feel that is what happened at takahanga.
I definitely know also that the tamariki/rangatahi are our future and we do indeed need to nurture them.
The korero above is fantastic and now Ngati Kuri need to move forward. It is important not to boycott the Marae paepae and remember who the families that fund raised and contrabuted to the building of Takahanga, walking away from the Marae is walking away from them….. Anyway I think we can discuss these events and out own runanga meetings and not on Richards properganda.
I agree with John about the korero, but I would make one plea. Some of us are unable to go to the marae, some of us don’t have experienced kaumatua around to teach us the ways of debate and discourse. Of course kanohi ki te kanohi is number one but let us embrace this new way of communicating and practise and get better at it. This would not replace our traditional ways but would add enhancement and increase our understanding of each other and tikanga. So keep posting and commenting and debating please – it really is a wananga for some of us younger ones.
To Marty Mars, maybe you could start one of these blog things for just Ngati Kuri to use but as far as supporting a ‘one eyed’ person like Richard is not the way to go, so to all Kuri there must be otherways.
I have to agree with Marty Mars, though blogging can get a bit addictive.
Now back to the korero. I agree with John whanau shouldn’t boycott the Marae, however hurt feelings and our need to sulk sometimes takes precedence for a while. And in the meantime we allow other whanau to come in and have a turn which isn’t always a bad thing. And as we know the doors are always open, especially when we have access to the people with the keys.
I also remember hearing a saying somewhere which says, “you can create anything, if you don’t care who takes the credit”.
I also agree with “Respect our rights” (ROR) the Meeting was conducted really well as there definitely would have been blood left on the floor had the Interim Chair not had such a good reign on things.
I also am aware of the advanced notice in terms of the vote of no confidence in the chair. As I am sure it came as no surprise to ROR. Personally I can’t remember a time when there haven’t been meetings before or after the main meeting. As this is a place where people can challenge their ideas, gain support, change there ideas or if they can’t convince their own whanau stop their ideas cold, before it hits the runanga floor and they are challenged by other whanau. And you definitely need to have the evaluation meetings afterwards so you can dissect everything. This process is generally fairly open and I thought widely known within whanau. It also doesn’t require minute takers and allows whanau to brainstorm.
I also don’t think all the whanau that came through knew they weren’t suppose to vote as we ran into a few whanau members while shopping and they had fully expected to have a vote. It’s okay though they were happy with how things went. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt though, maybe they were out of the room when that bit was discussed in the meeting the night before.
I think what went wrong at Takahanga is that people have been handing out information and advice without having the best intentions for Kuri at heart, and others have been duped. The problem is there are a few of our own who are stirring the pot, really well in my opinion. But the truth always comes out eventually.
John maybe the debates are best left at the Marae, however we do have members of our own calling for everything to be held in committee which really does defeat the purpose of an open debate don’t you think. Hopefully they’ll get over it and start talking with whanau so everyone knows what is happening up front, especially since we are entering a recession and whanau will need support.
Thanks for both comments. I do have a blog about Ngai Tahu amongst other subjects. mars2earth.blogspot.com
I wouldn’t know if the whanau you refer to Jane as sulking are in fact sulking. From what I seen at the hui they have every right to walk away from duties of the marae because I feel what was done to Thomas was wrong.
Of late I have felt that Ngati Kuri have adopted the TRONT method of in committee if that is correct what you are saying at that worries me quite a bit.
Anyway as long as Ngati Kuri is still powering foward that is good and I believe we have a special meeting on the 18th so things can be discussed.
Very interesting korero, this is my first time on this website and what has been said I see whanau have either made up their mind one way or another and will be sticking with that.
The table have just passed a resolution that they send a “Letter of Expectation” to the NTHC boards asking that the members sit on various boards and I have just one question. What business skills do any of them have and can honestly add any value to these boards. You must remember to be a director on a board means you have something to contrabute, not sit there as a spy for the table.
What I call and many whanau call the table is “Deadwood” and needs new fresh grass roots people to step in but must stand down after 3 terms.
The old saying that there is lies, damn lies and statistics could easily read there is truth, half truth and mistruth.
Te Runanga are seeking expressions of interest from members of the whanui to put their names forwards for a directors database. see this link http://ngaitahu.iwi.nz/Te-Runanga/Governance/Directorships/
My Rep told me that everyone who goes onto one of the commercial boards has to go through a process with external oversight of some kind now. I would like to think we have members of the whanui who have something to contribute to all of the boards. I agree with Truth that we don’t just want anyone just because they are a Rep or indeed a member of the whanui. They have to be able to contribute and they have to stick to the kaupapa.
There are two Reps on the NTHC Board for now but none on the other boards and none are expected to be appointed to the other boards because, as Truth says, they probably don’t have the skills and hopefully there are much more qualified members of the whanui, and other non Ngai Tahu directors prepared to be on those boards.
The quality of the Reps at the table is an issue for us all. So each of the runanga should make sure to nominate good people as Reps and Alts.
If they are good, then they can stay as long as their runanga wants them – but I agree there is some deadwood to be cleared away. Get out there and vote I say.
More good points.
The call for director nominations is interesting and this is my take on it http://mars2earth.blogspot.com/2009/04/want-to-govern-why.html
We have many iwi members who would provide good governance via directorships. Unfortunately asking them to nominate themselves is the wrong way to get the right people.
The problem is its the table that picks them so I’m not holding my breath, which is sad because as everyone has said, we do have many talented whanau out there.
We have a good debate about Ngai Tahu elections here: http://mars2earth.blogspot.com/2009/04/want-to-govern-why.html
What do you think?
Are there different classes of Ngai Tahu? Should there be?
Kia ora Truth says (and MM)
Re Directors and Representatives
The real problem is that we all think we know best and we don’t seem to want to devolve decision making to anyone. Personally, I am in favour of a benevolent dictatorship as long as I am the dictator but I can see others may not agree. Not sure if this is a NT trait or if we share it with everyone else.
IMHO, for a few years at least it will not matter how the Representatives are appointed, direct vote, by electoral committee, by the executive of the runanga or whatever, we are still unlikely to raise the level of Representative or to have huge confidence in what they do.
Thus how they get there is less important to me than what happens once they are there. More of us should be attending TRONT meetings and posting on blogs such as this and MMs blog what happened and how they each behaved.
No good waiting for the TRONT comms machine to tell us. They can’t openly criticise Reps for bad behaviour no matter how tempting it might be. Then write to the Runanga concerned, or send your rellies or go yourself. Tell them why the Representative that is at the table is good or not so good. Because, believe it or not some are hard working folks who are very genuine in their behaviours and decision making processes.
Are they the cream of the NT crop? Well perhaps not. But just as the best people wont go onto the commercial boards we won’t get the best onto TRONT unless we tell them what we expect, how we will hold them accountable and then get the H*LL out of their way and let them do their job.
If they screw up, get them removed, identify what the issue was and don’t make the same mistake the next time.
As for the current process, I can’t see how direct elections cure the problem of “useless” representatives. It certainly does not in the general election process for national and local politicians.
At least the Appointment Committee process allows some chance that a small group of people will carefully consider whether candidate A or B or C has the “best available credentials” to raise the standard of representatives. At least we know who to hold accountable if they screw it up.
BUT – of course we are not any more comfortable letting the Appointment Committee do its work in appointing Reps than we are letting TRONT do its work in appointing directors.
Back to square one. Participation is the key – if the action is at TRONT get there, if at the Marae, go there.
Kia kaha – we are but 12 years old as a way of doing this. The NZ Parliament had far bigger upheavals than TRONT has had in its formative years and Parliament still suffers from time to time. Yet, where I live, the sun still rises each day and the true impact on my life of all of this is pretty damn small. So I reckon, rather than grumbling about the process, let us give it the best we can to make it work and then move on.
Process is cabbage, but yes we need to work with it, the problem is and always will be the current selection of TRoNT reps….they are deadwood and should be replaced, they have their own agenda and Solomon will never be able to bring both sides togeather, he should stay on as rep (if kaikoura wants him….the real Kaikoura not the dial a vote) but stand down as Kaiwhakahaere. Don’t replace him with the other idiots that are on the table, make the ‘Kaiwhakahaere’ role seperate or a ‘contract of service’.
Kia ora Truth IS,
I think you raise a good point (amoungst many) about TRONT comms. I am not sure what is happening their other than nothing. When you search on the ODT or Stuff or The Press websites about Ngai Tahu – what do you get?… Articles from FEB about the power struggle. Nothing that Ngai Tahu have done for 3 months has made it to the news… but I am sure plenty has happened so what is going on? Shouldn’t Comms be seeding stories to get some positive/good Ngai Tahu news out there?
We get zero from TRONT apart form the monthly mags. The website is a joke.
Why are we being kept in the dark? Can’t we be trusted? Are we too dumb to understand issues? Do we need benevolent leaders to tell us what to think and do?
I’m not going to toe that line.
Kia ora Marty
The simple fact is that if it is good news it is not news if it invloves Maori. The other day when all of the iwi of Te Waipounamu plus the iwi of Hauraki reached agreement between themselves and then with the Crown to transfer $97 mill cash to those iwi it did not make the TV news.
Why, the “Maori” story that night was a negative one, all about maketu. Also not sexy to point out the need for the payout was another Crown stuff up. Making Crown property rights out Maori customary rights, then setting aside 20% that the Crown can’t deliver and then, having to pay cash compensation.
My point was not about what NT Coms will put out, but more about what they can’t. We all need to know which Reps are doing good work and which are not. We can not expect NT Comms to get into that space.
NT Comms can only do so much, their budget is limited and controlled by Angus and he’s not about to let the NT whanaui what is really happening in the “Temple of Doom”. They need to keep it quiet otherwise the ‘natives’ will know how much he is spending on general managers because he doesn’t have management skills.
I’m interested in what others think about this?
http://mars2earth.blogspot.com/2009/05/waitaha-group-oppose-meridian-and-ngai.html