A valid point was made in the comments in "Solomon Retains His Position"
"Hard to imagine how the two groups are ever going to get on… so are we in for a perpetual to-ing and fro-ing as they have turnabout at the top?
Where are our great peacemakers?
Who can bring the two sides together for the good of everyone. Is there anyone of mana independent of the two groups?
I hope people are working behind the scenes towards this end. The great mass of Ngai Tahu whanui would be keen to know as well I think."
"Busted Blond" from roarprawn said "agreed – so who do we have who are peacemakers?"
However that prompted me to reply:
BB Why do we need peacemakers? These malcontents should answer up to their Runanga and Runanga should decide their fate. Problem is that there are some Runanga are who are a closed shop- Awarua is a classic -see comments by Vera on this blog about this. Why should we kowtow to this tiny group whose recent covert scheme has just been outed? This group has been behaving in a disruptive manner for years. In my view, it all started shortly after the arrival of Potiki as CEO. Its being going on in one guise or another ever since. I have recorded a time line of these events. Tront knew what was happening but decided to either ignore what was happening and/or sought consensus (in good faith) hoping the problems would go away. The dissident Tront reps simply exploited the consensus approach. It would have been better – and I suggested this to some reps- to go to the shareholders and say this not working. My view, is no peacemakers, purge the rotten apples from the NT tray.
Kia ora Richard
Greetings to you my freind
I am making comment to state catagorically that I do not put anonomous comments on this or any other web site as someone has suggested on that roarprawn site but as I didnt support her line my message never appeared.
You are correct in your view that Tahu Potiki is central to the tribal conflicts of the last few years and that peace with him or his faction seems unlikely.
The table did not seek concensus nor did we ignore the behaviours of those reps who have supported the discord, we simply do not have or seek the power to select representatives, that is the business of the papatipu runanga.
We do expect representatives to accept both decisions and processes needed to run the iwi, but the rules require good faith on the part of representatives and the malcontents have failed to show that.
At least two representatives have put their names to a strategy that includes leaking confidential information that could seriously damage the iwi.
The iwi needs to act and papatipu runaka need to stop their representatives from sabotaging our tribal future or remove them.
Ngai Tahu has achieved so much culturally, commercially and politically and it sickens me to see so called tribal leaders seeking to deminish the mana of our people in order to take control of the tribal assets.
The events of the last few years could fill a book and maybe oneday the story will be fully told but I am more interested in making sure the iwi continues to have control of its future.
Thats what these malcontents want to prevent and that is why I support the tribal leadership and why I supported the removal of Wally Stone who breached the Kawanata and dabbled in tribal politics.
Tim Rochford
Representative for Makaawhio
The latest missive from the self appointed tribal leaders is all the evidence we need as to who has to go.
On the other side BB and others ask “where are the leaders?” or “where are the peacemakers?”
The answer is in fact the remaining 12 Representatives
If they were leaders they would practice what they are preaching – why don’t they resign and we shall see whether the problem was Mark Solomon or the rabble
I see in BB land that Team Tahu are at it again.
It is hard to know exactly what they want. Do they want more say in things or do they want the 2005 solution? It is not possible to have both.
Next they want to seperate TR from the business of NTHC but they want the runanga to be consulted about the commercial decisions. So if I have this right, rather than 18 reps carefully weighing up advice and reaching a decision, we should leave all major commecial decisions to rentamob. One way of losing value on the assets.
There was so much of the same old crap in the letter but they did save the best until last. Apparently they want all the reps to step aside and to hold elections.
WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR? They have the power to clean up their own back yard and if (BIG IF) they have the mandate to talk for their runanga they must have the mandate to call a meeting get on with it. Better still, if they believe their own crap, the reps should do the decent thing and resign.
Which one of those reps or chairs is going to walk the talk, if any?
I am going to Rehua to hear what is said. I heard what happened at Kaikoura and I am proud of the way in which the families there gave these trouble makers a chance to have their say before they sent them packing.
Every marae has to make its own mind up whether to stand tall or not. Those so called leaders who are asking for all tront reps to stand down, you should sort out your own stuff first before you come to someone elses place.
Ann has it sussed. There are 12 doing their job and it seems six who are not. The answer is right there. They go and if things don’t get better then we start on the rest.
Just a slight clarification Ann – seeing as though I raised the peacemaker issue. I am not on any side! I don’t have any agendas and i don’t get correspondence from any groups or individuals. Might be hard to believe but I am neutral and I find the slurs and insinuations from both sides to be equally repellent.
Kia Ora Trevor
I attended that hui at takahanga and it wasn’t how you interpret it. In actual fact those trouble makers that you refer to left the hui when screamed at to leave because they believed that was the tika thing to do.
Ngati Kuri/takahanga was never like that, they never sent their manuhiri out of our whare tipuna. They never yelled abuse at their kaumatua, they were a humble hapu made up of leaders and honorable people. Not the bunch that call themselves leaders today and that is the whole tront table, they are all to blame and they are all responsible, for the mishaps and goings on in Ngai Tahu.
Sonny is well informed – or is he?
It sounds to me that Sonny is a mis-informer from way back.
The post is repetition of the same old tripe. The information released by TRONT clearly states that no Representative knew the Gray report existed before Wally gave it out at the meeting. As per usual Sonny you start with one lie and you build on it. By now you may even beleive it.
Only those who are always plotting themselves see conspiracy around every corner.
There was a few people asking, why was Wally removed, and the answer was clear enough for those who wanted to listen. Most people present accepted the answers and almost all appreciated the chance to ask questions.
Funny thing was, the people who wanted to get the message to our people were missing in action. Not one of them was there to talk to the members of the whanui gathered there to hear the truth.
It was interesting to hear from the Upoko of Otakou that his Chair does not speak for him or the runanga on this matter. Same message came from Wairewa, Arowhenua, Waewae about their Chairs and we all know that Thomas no longer speaks for Kaikoura.
All in all well over 200 members of the whanui were there to hear the korero and the majority now know that people like Sonny are peddling mis-information via the media.
The key thing from the hui was a genuine disgust from all speakers about the way a small nuber of individuals have dragged Ngai Tahu through the media.
Sorry to have to report to BB that by far the majority were in support of Mark. And sorry for you Sonny but the people were in favor of the House of Tahu as well.
THis is for “respect our thoughts”.
What meeting were you at????
Also I would just like to note that at the hui held at Arowhenua in January for what is known as the tight 7, itwas discussed openly the reasons as to why Wally was to be fired. And Maria Pera stood up at Takahanga and asked ‘innocently’ why was Wally fired – she knew why! Why are they playing dumb – all part of the plan I suppose.
I know this because the Chairman of Kaikoura was invited and he took along a few whanau members who came back from the meeting discussing the matter.
Kia Ora Mark sorry I mean Hemi the only reason that you are still there is because people are to weak to do what is right this is not bout what is tika this is a number game and the more people you can gather to support you the more people you affect so bear it on your shoulders Mark.
Now I am flattered, first someone in BB land thinks I am Tim R now I am Mark S.
There is about 40,000 members of the whanui and not all of them are directly associated with TR.
I missed the hui at Arowhenua (probably my invitation was in the post) so be good to know why the tight(ish) seven thought Wally would have to go.
Time is moving on. Sad to read has just worked out that numbers count when it comes to votes? That has always been the case. The key issues is are they informed or mis-informed votes? At Kaikoura the folks heard from both sides and voted accordingly.
After Rehua my vote will be more informed as will some others. Team Tahu were a no show so I don’t know if I could have been swayed by any of their arguments.
Now all I am waiting for is those Chairs to get on with the voting. May even go to an AGM or two this year and see if we can’t deal to those Chairs as well.
Well I did go to Rehua. I saw quite a few Reps there, an Upoko or two but not the ones who went to Kaikoura.
There was large number of kaumatua and over 200 in all. It was a great day out. It confirmed for me that the ones who have been in the media are nothing but a bunch of trouble makers.
If they could not front the people then I have no time for them.
There is obviously two different views of what happened at Kaikoura. I met people at Rehua who had been at Kaikoura. I know they have been on the marae for years and years and they don’t agree with “respect our rights”.
I thought that Mark gave a fair overview of events from his perspective. It was backed up by other Reps. He was strong in defending Wally from some of the rumours floating about.
It was clear that the people who have been in the media do not have the support of their runanga.
The plan to spread misinformation does not have the support of any of the people who spoke at the hui.
Here is hoping this all stops now and the Chairs and Reps get these elections done. Be good to know that these are not going to be hijacked by the secret seven.
Kia ora “respect our rights” I was at the meeting in Takahanga too and those “trouble makers” walked out because they would have lost face had they stayed. One of the group stood up and said that he beleived that those who held ahi kaa needed to make the decisions, (whilst looking at the information that the tight six were talking about) and I think he really meant it. The problem was that two others stood up and copied what he said. (He had received a bit of a cheer.) I think these two were saying it for show. Unfortunately when they were asked to leave (nicely three times) when the vote for the kaikoura representative came up they had no choice but to go. I think the rest leaving was a bit of a domino effect. Hopefully they will do the same in Awarua so that those from there (who are invited) and those standing outside the gate (those who weren’t) will also be given the same options.
Although Mark’s comments weren’t the best, I have to look at if from the bigger perspective. In January the Chair decided to be a spokesperson for the remaining tightish six in a media campaign to discredit his iwi and Mark as Kaiwhakahaere. He then began a series of e-mails which by rights should have remained in the hands of the exec. To which Mark got on his high horse and made some rash comments. These were then given to his Aunt and Uncle, who were encouraged to use them to call for Mark’s resignation. (It has to be encouraged because they didn’t drive themselves through to the interviews with Te Karere) It doesn’t look very good for Thomas does it.
In terms of Wally, Mark didn’t go and talk to his whanau, which is a hapu by itself. He instead went to those other 17 members who form the TRONT board of elected representatives and of those only two supported having Wally stay, whilst 11 voted for him to go. Mark has one vote. Those that attended the meeting in Arowhenua knew of Wally’s possible dismissal in January, which makes his shock at being informed when it hit the papers, a very good act. Had it not been for the Kaikoura meeting I would have believed him.
Now if everyone is guessing who Hemi is I’ll go for David.
Good debate.
Even when the same people see the same accident – they recall the details in completely different ways, including colours, chain of events etc That is why i think the differing views expressed are healthy and the debate is important.
Don’t know who Hemi or Southbound are, and in some ways I don’t care, although it’s always nice to know who you korero with – what I can say is that they both put well reasoned arguments together and their contribution to the debate is enjoyable and interesting.
True Marty a good debate is great, though so is a good mystery.
I would like to know what “respect my rights” project is, because actually I only came into the blogs because I was sick of all the misinformation and half truths, though it may become a habit. It’s a lot like reading the tabloids.